Pennsylvania Legacies #236: Bucket List

Josh Raulerson (00:01):

It is Friday, June 27th, 2025. I’m Josh Raulerson, and this is Pennsylvania Legacies, the podcast series from the Pennsylvania Environmental Council. Back in 2018, PEC Program Manager Rachel Stark, visited her first national park. That experience was so transformative that Rachel set herself an ambitious goal. By the time she turned 30, she would visit all 63 national parks in the us. Over the last eight years, Rachel’s adventures have taken her to almost every state, as well as the territories of American Samoa and the U.S. Virgin Islands. Along the way, she’s learned a lot about conservation and about how climate change, increased visitation and funding cuts have affected these beloved places. Now, with less than a month to go before that self-imposed deadline, only eight national parks remain on Rachel’s list, all of them in Alaska. Before she set off on her final journey North, my colleague Derek Maiolo sat down with Rachel to talk about her experiences over the years and her upcoming trip to Alaska. Here’s their conversation.

Derek Maiolo (01:09):

When did you have this idea and how did it come about?

Rachael Stark (01:13):

My first technical national Park was in 2016 to Shenandoah National Park. That wasn’t one that I sought out or planned. It was actually part of a leave, no Trace Master Educator course that I took through the National Outdoor Leadership School. So the first national park trip I actually planned was in October of 2018. I did a little road trip with a friend, went to Guadalupe Mountains, Carlsbad Caverns, and Big Ben National Park. And even then, you know, I thought, wow, these places are so amazing. Like I definitely want to pursue them and see them. But it wasn’t until that winter, between December and January kind of all at once, these, these two major events happened. One was there was a government shutdown, and during government shutdowns, national parks, they’re not staffed. And during that particular government shutdown, for one reason or another, I don’t know why these people were being the way they were

(02:12):

But people went into Joshua Tree National Park and they were intentionally cutting down Joshua trees. And that was something to me that just really struck me. You know, we have these parks that they’re already struggling due to things like climate change and glaciers melting and all of these different things they’re getting hammered with. And now you have people who are going in and intentionally being destructive. And so I thought, how long before something really major disappears from these natural areas? And, you know, will I get the chance to see them if, if I wait longer? And then on top of that I was diagnosed that year with psoriatic arthritis. And in the winter, I was not yet on medication. I had some, some stressful things happening in my personal life, and I got a really, really bad flare up that basically partially disabled me for a couple of weeks. Couldn’t walk down the steps if I sat on the ground. I struggled to get up. Just really, really debilitating and, you know, physically had a, a really hard time. But also mentally, it really knocked me down a lot. And then thankfully I got on medication. I got a, a, a tiny procedure done that really helped me out. And I was told I’m probably going to need a knee replacement by the time I’m 40. And I thought, well, heck, like, if that’s going to happen to me, why don’t I set this goal, do this amazing thing, visit all 63 national parks before the time I hit 30, so that if I do have this, this future downtime due to some sort of procedure, then at least I’ll feel confident knowing I’ve bounced back from this before I could do it again.

Derek Maiolo (03:47):

Wow. Oh my gosh, that’s quite the motivation to go to all these places. Was this something that, like growing up had you, so you said, how old were you when you went to your first national park?

Rachael Stark (04:01):

So 2016, I would’ve been 20 years old. And then the, so yeah, the trip in, in 2018, I was like 22, 23.

Derek Maiolo (04:09):

Growing up, did you, were you outdoorsy as a kid? Like, did you go outside and go on hikes?

Rachael Stark (04:17):

No, believe it or not, not at all. I mean, you know, we had a, a swimming pool in the backyard and I would save ladybugs from the swimming pool. And, you know, I remember admiring the bats at night and, and spending a lot of time out in the backyard. But, you know, this was in the Wilkes Bear suburbs. This was not up in the mountains. I didn’t do any camping. I didn’t do any, any really hardcore hiking. It wasn’t until I was about 16 years old when I got involved in the scouts that I really started to spend time outside and, you know, grow this admiration for the outdoors.

Derek Maiolo (04:51):

How did your experiences in those first couple of national parks compare to some of your other outdoor experiences?

Rachael Stark (04:58):

Those first couple especially really opened my eyes to how different these spaces in the United States are. I mean, that was my first exposure to a strikingly different landscape where, you know, the, the grandeur of Big Ben National Park with the Rio Grande flowing through it, although just as beautiful in my opinion, as some of the things you could see out here in Pennsylvania was just vastly different from everything that I grew up in. And, you know, you’re walking around, you’re seeing lizards on the ground, you’re seeing all sorts of these critters that I’m not seeing at home, and I’m getting to kind of just explore this new frontier and get a better understanding of different landscapes and ecosystems that we have being protected here in the United States.

Derek Maiolo (05:40):

Yeah, yeah. Our National Park system is so varied. You have everything from caves to mountains to valleys—

Rachael Stark (05:47):

Islands. Yeah, its really remarkable.

Derek Maiolo (05:48):

Have you had a favorite park so far? I know that might be a, a tough one to just pick one.

Rachael Stark (05:56):

That’s such a tough question. When people ask just as an easy answer, I always go to Big Bend National Park because that was my first, like really big strikingly different national park. And the experience that really sealed it for me, there was, I remember getting up, we, we camped there and I got up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom. And when I had walked out, I’m like, oh, who turned on the lights? And it was the Milky Way. I was seeing the Milky Way for the first time, and I just was stunned. I just stood there right outside of the latrine, like staring up at the sky, just amazed by how much the stars were brightening up the atmosphere. I, I don’t think you forget your first time seeing the Milky Way, and I’m sure any, everyone can share in that experience. I’ve been to several dark Sky parks since then. I always really adore the experience, but there’s nothing like that first time just seeing how big and broad the universe really is.

Derek Maiolo (06:52):

Absolutely. And, and it is like, you see it and you’re like, oh, I ab I understand why they call it the Milky Way. Like it really lives up to its name.

Rachael Stark (06:58):

Right? Yeah, glowing. Absolutely stunning. It was so cool.

Derek Maiolo (07:04):

What about like, experiences that maybe parks you were surprised by? Were there, were there certain areas that maybe you went in with an expectation that actually seeing the place you were it was unexpectedly, I don’t know, better or worse. Any just like surprise experiences on your, on your journeys?

Rachael Stark (07:23):

I would say I have a, a couple like that. I mean, one, just to give a, a shout out to some that I feel are kind of underdogs. Congaree National Park is one that I have really fond memories there. Congaree National Park, they get a bad rap sometimes because you’re on the Congaree River, there’s a lot of boardwalk trails, but they regularly flood. And so, you know, you go from several miles of hiking trails to one mile or less of Boardwalk Trail. And so it’s very limiting in that. But when we went, we had an opportunity to go kayaking on the Congaree River while it was flooded. And so we had this just unique experience to get out on the river and just paddle in between the Cyprus trees and areas where there were, there were hiking trails here a couple of days ago, and now there’s several feet of water that we’re paddling on top of

(08:12):

So that was like, just a really, really cool immersive experience that I, I will never forget. Also, mammoth Cave National Park, you know, park Rangers are the, the best people. And we were fortunate that we had a fantastic park ranger who was so passionate. He, he grew up in the area, had some really cool firsthand accounts of just being here and visiting the place as a young kid. And that really just made the experience that much better. And, and really again, just sealed Mammoth cave spot in my heart as like kind of a top-10 national park.

Derek Maiolo (08:44):

So Congaree National Park, I had to do some researching as you were talking because I, I realized, you know, there are what, what, 63 National Parks? And, and so, you know, I am not, certainly not familiar with all of them. So Congaree National Parks, South Carolina, is that, that that one in South Carolina?

Rachael Stark (08:58):

Yeah, And Mammoth Caves is Kentucky. So both of them are not places that most people go to experience national parks. You know, most people are heading out to California Montana, Wyoming, those places where you really expect, like, those, those vast national parks, the, the namesakes like Yosemite and, and Glacier and Yellowstone. But yeah, Congaree and Mammoth aren’t, aren’t household names and they should be every, everyone should go and experience those places, especially if you get unique opportunities like that or, or really passionate people who can share that passion with you and help you really connect with that experience.

Derek Maiolo (09:33):

You know, I, as you’re talking about that, I’m thinking about, you know, at PEC you work often in the outdoor recreation space in, in Northeastern pa, but also across Pennsylvania. Did, did you notice when you were exploring South Carolina and Kentucky, were there some lessons that, like takeaways as far as like approaches to outdoor recreation or things that you noticed in those areas?

Rachael Stark (09:54):

There are definitely, you know, similar landscapes to Northeastern Pennsylvania, I would say to Pennsylvania as a whole. You have these towns that were once really reliant on some sort of industry, some sort of manufacturing industry that have since died off. And a lot of the local areas, you know, have kind of just become these, these depressed towns because of that, you know, you have an abandoned rail line running through it. You don’t really have much shopping or anything going on in the downtown center. And then over the course of a couple of years, you have this national park there that more and more people are coming to, which provides an opportunity for someone to open up a coffee shop in the downtown or open up a hotel nearby, because there’s now this influx of people. And I think that these parks in particular and just a lot of them that are east of the Mississippi are now experiencing this wave of the outdoor recreation economy

(10:50):

And what that could bring to these small towns that, you know, 5, 10, 15 years ago were kind of abandoned and dilapidated and have now been able to really invest in their downtown centers and their infrastructure, bring jobs back and o obviously too improve the quality of life for the, the people who are living there. So I think that’s a big thing. Also, they’re not necessarily these dramatic back country experiences. They’re places where people can go with their families. You know, very minimal skill level. Actually, none really is needed. Like you could just pick up and go to Mammoth Cave without having ever been on a trail in your life. And you’re probably going to feel safe and, and still have a really positive experience. So it’s a good way to kinda get that exposure. And introduce yourself to the National Park system

Derek Maiolo (11:41):

When you’re going on these trips, are you going alone? Do you go with a, a particular group or what does that look like?

Rachael Stark (11:48):

So normally I’m going with friends, family, my partner. I’ve, I’ve been with a lot of different people. I’ve corralled a lot of different people. One of my favorite trips of all time was October of 2020. Not a time that anybody should have been traveling. But my girlfriend and I had we had plans to go down to Florida just to go to the beach. And because everything was shut down, everything was still a little weird with COVID. We pivoted and we’re like, let’s go to the three national parks down in Florida. And so that’s what we did. We, we did the Everglades. We did like a bike tour there, and there was no one in the park because Florida was the last place most people wanted to be. In ’22, we did Biscayne National Park where we did like a sailing adventure.

(12:32):

And then we did Dry Tortuga, which is a, a really cool island off of Key West a an old fort. We did some really cool snorkeling down there. So definitely a, a lot of groups of people all have made these experiences a little bit different each time. But I did do one solo trip last summer to Yellowstone grand Teton and Glacier National Park. And that was a transformational experience just to really connect with myself. And I, I would say it was like almost healing too, to have just over a week just with myself. You know, having this kind of quiet confidence as I hiked these trails and had conversations with other people who were on their first or 10th solo adventure. Really, really transformational experience doing something solo like that.

Derek Maiolo (13:21):

I do feel that when you travel solo, it opens you up in new ways to experiences and to especially engaging with other people. Like I think it yes. Maybe makes it less intimidating for others to approach you, or there’s just, I have found this certain serendipitous, like spontaneity that tends to happen when you’re solo traveling. Sometimes it can be also scary and lonely, but I’m just curious. Yeah. Like, did you have moments like that where it felt like traveling solo opened you up to experiences that you wouldn’t have had otherwise?

Rachael Stark (13:50):

I did. Yeah. I remember being on Inspiration point in the Grand Tetons, and I was like the, the unofficial photographer of the spot. You know, I was by myself. I was just hanging out there enjoying the moment. Everyone who got to the top, you know, I’d offer to take their picture. And I know that, you know, I had a part in making their experience more positive too, because people love to have their picture taken in these wonderful grand spots. And making that offer opened me up to then have these conversations with these people about their life experiences, what brought them to the park. And I, I met two people who were going to school out in California, and they invited me to sit and have some Turkish coffee and some cookies with them. And just kind of learning about their travels in Mongolia and all sorts of places in Europe.

(14:37):

It was really, really just awesome to, to hear some other young people who were really interested in the, the same experiences as I was, but doing something very different from me. And they, they had grown up in Israel, so they had a very different perspective on being outdoors and hiking than we do in America. And they specifically said that they’ve noticed a lot of Americans treat hiking as if it’s an Olympic sport. And I’m, I’m definitely guilty of that. So that moment kind of reminded me like, it’s okay to, to sit and relax for two hours at this beautiful, beautiful point and talk to people because people are as much a part of the experience as, you know, these, these grand ecosystems.

Derek Maiolo (15:19):

Oh, I love that. So obviously, you know, a lot, lot of positive experiences. I’m curious too, though, did you notice going to these parks, you talked earlier about part of what led you to establishing this goal was considering the effects of climate change mm-hmm . You know, glaciers disappearing. Were you aware of, like, was that, was that something that Rangers mentioned or that signs had talked about? Like how are these areas being impacted by those kind of changes?

Rachael Stark (15:46):

I mean, I was definitely aware going in just from studying environmental studies during my undergrad, but also I, I’d say one of the most visible signs of climate change is all of the fires, especially out west, you know, you, any national park you go to out west, somewhere in the national park, there is a completely scorched landscape that within the last 10 years was not like that. And fire activity has been really, really bad over the last couple of decades. So I think that’s really one of the biggest impacts of climate change that is visible, especially to, to front country travelers in the national parks. And then one of the other things that worries me too, and, you know, this is going to sound hypocritical as somebody who wanted to go to all 63 national parks but overuse and over overcrowding is a really big issue. A lot of national parks have started to shift to timed entry permit systems, trying to put a carrying capacity on how many people can actually go to the national parks at once. But it, you know, it’s definitely still become an issue with litter, you know, seeing a lot more interaction, bad interactions between people and wildlife. And again, you know, you have people going in and intentionally causing destruction too.

Derek Maiolo (16:59):

Yeah, it’s a hard balance to strike. I’ve heard the term, Loved to death, you know? It’s like people come in with good intentions and, and even, even then can cause issues. So it’s hard to strike that balance of, of want you wanting to make these welcoming places, but also being aware of the consequences it can have.

Rachael Stark (17:18):

Well, and not just on, on wildlife and the ecosystem, but there’s infrastructure limitations too. You know, there’s only so many restroom facilities, so many parking spaces. When I was studying for my independent study for my graduate degree, I interviewed an analyst up at Acadia National Park in Bain. And one of the big reasons that they had implemented their Cadillac summit reservation system was because they had so many people trying to go up there to see the sunrise, that there would become a point where there’d be no more parking and people would just start blocking the road going up to the summit. Oh, you know, all the way, like a half of a mile down the road. And so if there was an issue at the summit where there was some sort of medical emergency, there was going to be no way for personnel to reach them. So, you know, striking that balance between protecting the environment and protecting the people, and unfortunately, sometimes you, you just have to recognize that there is a limit to the number of people who can go and enjoy a space at once.

Derek Maiolo (18:18):

When you go on these journeys, do you have any, like a, a thing that you do at each one? Like a, a certain ritual or like a, a a, you know, just a, a, a repetitive thing? Like I’m, I’m wondering like, is there a certain, do you always try to get at least or something as simple as a selfie or something more like, you know, I guess meaningful to you that you do at, at these different parks? Well,

Rachael Stark (18:40):

Of course I have to go and get my tchotchke from the visitor center . So usually we do an ornament that’s, that’s our take home. So our Christmas tree every year is covered in ornaments from the various national parks. Oh, I love that. I guess like 55 different ornaments at this point for all, all 55 national parks that I’ve been to. And you know, we just make an effort too to stop at the visitor center, even though I make a really, really detailed itinerary leading up to the, the travel, I always stop and talk with rangers and ask them about their favorite trails in the park and just kind of keep that little bit of flexibility in my schedule in case they have a recommendation for something that might be, you know, safer or, you know, might get away from the crowds more, or just whatever might fit the conditions a little bit better for that week. You know, the, again, park rangers are the best people, so I, I always heed their advice and make sure to, to take that as well as I can.

Derek Maiolo (19:40):

I love the ornaments. That’s, that’s such a great way of, and like every Christmas you get to see your progress. So tell me about this upcoming trip here you, in the next couple weeks, you are going to be going to your next park. Where is it?

Rachael Stark (19:54):

I’m going to Alaska.

Derek Maiolo (19:55):

Oh my gosh, so far!

Rachael Stark (19:58):

Yes, very far. And it’s not one park, it’s eight parks.

Derek Maiolo (20:01):

Eight parks, okay. So, will this get you to completing your list?

Rachael Stark (20:07):

Yeah, so I’m at 55 National Parks right now, so eight will bring me to 63.

Derek Maiolo (20:13):

Wow. What is that going to look like? How are you how long are you going to be gone? What’s your strategy for seeing each one? And, and I’m sure too up in Alaska, like getting to them might also be challenging.

Rachael Stark (20:28):

So from day one, this has always been my goal. I wanted to spend my 30th birthday in Alaska, heading in the gates of the Arctic National Park and be like, you know, this is it. I’m going out on a bang. And then as I started to actually plan the trip, I’m like, Ooh, there’s a lot of logistics involved in this. If something goes wrong, you know, God forbid, and, you know, I have to do it before my 30th. I can’t do it a couple days after. So I figured I’d give myself that buffer room and, and finish a couple days before my 30th birthday. And then also that way I could be home and celebrate on my birthday too. And, and really, you know, just cherish all that I had accomplished in the last couple of weeks. So July 11th, I depart for Alaska.

(21:14):

I’m headed with my mom for the first week, and then my partner’s coming up with me for like a week and a half after that. And we’re starting with glacial Bay National Park. Man, my mom are doing that one. We’re we’re doing all of the, the national parks that could be accessed by road or by boat. And then when he gets there, we get to do the crazy bush plane national parks that could only be reached by some special charters and some, some really unique experiences like Gates of the Arctic and Cobo Valley. And that actually ended up switching too. I’m now ending on Cobo Valley National Park instead of Gates of the Arctic.

Derek Maiolo (21:51):

Oh, okay. Wow. So, yeah. Can you tell me about like, what, what goes into getting to, let’s, let’s go with your last one. So sorry, you said the last one is Kobuk Valley? How will you get to Kobuk Valley? Like, tell me about that last journey.

Rachael Stark (22:07):

So, Kobuk Valley does not have any, any roads going into it. There’s a river that runs through it, but it is above the Arctic Circle, you know, very, very remote Alaska. And there are very few people who offer charters to that area. So one of the options was we could take a charter flight that would, you know, just do a flyover, but I didn’t want that. I wanted to get on the ground, especially with my last park, get on the ground, make sure I’m really experiencing it, you know, going hiking, seeing some of the wildlife. Another option is they’ll drop you off. There’s these sand dunes in Cobo Valley National Park. I’m intrigued to see how they compare to the Great Sand Dunes in Colorado. But they’ll drop you off there for about half of an hour to an hour.

(22:53):

And again, I’m like, no, you know, we have to go bigger than this. So, luckily I found an outfitter that works out of one of the farthest villages right on the edge of Kobuk Valley National Park, who picks you up after you take a, a really small chartered plane to this, this small village picks you up on the river and takes you upstream. And then they have a campground that’s right outside of the Kobuk Sand Dunes, and they give you this boat to travel back and forth to the Great Sand Dunes and to some of the other spaces within the National Park. So we’re going to be camping there for like two or three nights, and we are basically going to have this boat for rent. We’re going to get to go off and explore on our own, hopefully have some pretty cool distant wildlife encounters and just see some amazing sites. And the guy who actually runs this expedition has also been all 63 national parks. So he was very excited when I told him this was going to be my last, and, you know, shared some opportunities to celebrate that. So it’ll be pretty cool.

Derek Maiolo (23:51):

That is remarkable. Talk about like serendipitous, like meeting this man who is also—

Rachael Stark (23:56):

Right? Yeah. The stars aligned. It was perfect. And you know, that’s why I figured, you know, this, this should be the last one instead of Gates of the Arctic. This sounds like it’s going to work out perfectly.

Derek Maiolo (24:06):

How does it feel to be so close to accomplishing this goal you set these years ago?

Rachael Stark (24:11):

Oh, it’s crazy. a little stressful, especially again, you know, logistically there’s a lot that goes into Alaska. So now that I’m, you know, two and a half weeks out from my departure, I’m just really starting to make sure that, you know, everything’s booked, everything’s confirmed, I’ve got everything printed out and ready to go. You know, just getting my packing list together too. But I’m so excited and I’m, I’m really grateful that not only do I get my partner there with me to share in that experience at the end, but I also get to share some of that experience with my mom too, who I, I got to travel to Hawaii’s National Parks with her earlier this year. So it’ll be really nice to have gone to two more remote states, in the United States with her and kind of wrap up that experience.

Derek Maiolo (25:02):

I’ll just say a preemptive congratulations to you for, for accomplishing that. Well, and, and I guess like, too, something that I, I am curious about, like, I think, you know, the elephant in the room is like the, the cuts to the National Park Service that have come this year. Has that at all impacted your travel plans?

Rachael Stark (25:22):

Fortunately, it hasn’t had any impacts on my plans. There have been a couple of national parks that have had restricted visitor center hours. So, you know, one of the things I didn’t mention before, but I love to go to the visitor center and to watch the park film. You know, you could research all you want about a national park, but that park film just really sets in like how meaningful this place is, how many people there are that are working to protect it, and that are passionate about it. And so I’ve, I’ve had to miss unfortunately, a couple of park films. There haven’t been as many guided tours. So it’s definitely those little added experiences that, you know, national Park Rangers do add so much to these experiences. And I’ve missed out on that, the last couple of parks.

(26:08):

Other than that, I haven’t seen anything major. I, I am a little nervous for some of the more visited national parks this summer, like Yosemite, like Yellowstone you know, again, just the infrastructure and capacity issues, especially those parks that have the timed entry visitation, how they’re going to manage that when they have limited staff and more and more people coming every single year. I, I don’t know, but there are many nonprofit organizations and friends groups and things like that, that have stepped up to the plate, fortunately, to really kind of fill in the gaps and, and help where it is needed right now. So that’s, that is good news.

Derek Maiolo (26:46):

That’s been really incredible to see people step up to fill those, fill those roles.

Rachael Stark (26:52):

And anyone can do that. It’s, it’s not hard to seek these groups out. Almost every national park has a friends group or something similar. So if you live near a national park and you’re interested in getting involved, look into that because you are needed now more than ever.

Derek Maiolo (27:06):

And they would love to have any help. So all these experiences. And, and just I guess your overall, you know, your relationship to the outdoors, how does it inform your work at the Pennsylvania Environmental Council?

Rachael Stark (27:19):

All the work that we’re doing is about improving access to outdoor recreation, and that’s what the national parks are there for. You know, when, when Theodore Roosevelt kind of came into the picture, and that was early stages of the National Park Service Development and he, he had this idea with Gifford Pinchot of Conservation. They were about preserving these areas for the use of future generation. And, you know, they were really thinking of like timber harvest and things like that. And now that mindset has shifted into outdoor recreation use for future generations and really, really focusing on how do we make these spaces more accessible, more open, you know, enabling more and more people to be able to visit as they have been every single year. And, you know, I think we, we play a role in that because there are so many places in Pennsylvania that people can come and visit to, you know, get some practice for doing a big backcountry through hike in California or just get some exposure to hiking, to paddling, to all of these things that they might be planning to do on a national park trip.

(28:25):

Or even just get exposure to the national park system. You know, there’s 63 national parks, but there’s over 400 different sites managed by the National Park Service. Everything from national historic sites. Like we have Steam Town here in Northeastern PA, Gettysburg, you have national seashores if you go down into Maryland you know, there’s, there’s so many brilliant, wonderful places that people can go and visit it. It’s not the National Parks alone. So again, being involved in that big picture and getting people outside and, and evolving the, the stewardship messaging around that too, to get people to feel really connected when they are having that outdoor experience so that they continue to come back and develop kind of an ethic for the outdoors and, and this heart that’s set on protecting things that don’t have a voice.

Derek Maiolo (29:13):

I think my last question for you was what message would you have for someone who maybe hasn’t visited a national park yet or just wants to get more generally involved in outdoor adventures, but maybe is a little intimidated?

Rachael Stark (29:25):

Yeah, that’s the best question because, you know, first word of advice is just go, don’t wait for your calendars to align with your friends. Don’t wait for the perfect time. Definitely don’t wait for retirement. Just go and experience these places. Most of them, it’s fairly low cost to access these places. Some of the bigger national parks are like a $35 entry fee, but if you go in on a bike, that entry fee is often waived. There’s plenty of national parks that come in at lower than $35 or free. There’s annual passes. There’s free annual passes for different groups of people. So there’s lots of opportunities. And if you’re willing to be flexible too, you know, get a little out of your comfort zone and do things like camping and, and backpack cooking and all of that kind of stuff you know, my, a lot of my trips have averaged at probably like less than $400 per park because we’ve, we’ve roughed it in a few cases.

(30:23):

But that’s really immersed us into the experience. And again, it’s, it’s allowed me to do this because it’s kept it very affordable. And then also, you know, coming from the, the leave No trace side of me the, the second biggest piece of advice that I could give is to plan ahead. You know, go on the website, do your research, look at any current alerts or conditions you know, make an itinerary ahead of time. Make sure you know what, what trails you’re interested in doing. Leave that little bit of flexibility so you have time to go to the visitor center and have those talks with the Rangers to learn about their trails. But make sure you’re just aware of you know, ways that you can recreate responsibly and make it the best experience, not only for you, but for the, the good of the wildlife and the other people who are sharing that experience with you.

Derek Maiolo (31:09):

All great advice. all, all good things to, to keep in mind and to hopefully motivate, motivate some people out there. I already feel motivated. I’m like, I’m what adventure? Yeah. Go. My 30th birthday is coming up in October. I’m turning 30th too, so I don’t, oh my gosh. I don’t know what I I’m going to do. Something big. .

Rachael Stark (31:26):

Hey, I mean, there’s like more than 60 days between now and then.

Derek Maiolo (31:30):
Yeah, okay. I need to leave right now.

Rachael Stark (31:34):
Right now, especially American Samoa, that’s like a 15 hour flight, so good luck. You got it though.

Derek Maiolo (31:40):

Well, Rachel Stark, program manager at Pennsylvania Environmental Council, thank you so much for being on Pennsylvania Legacies. Congratulations on this accomplishment, and it’s a couple weeks away, but happy birthday.

Rachael Stark (31:54):

Thank you. It’s a couple months away, but happy birthday to you as well, . And thanks for having me.

Josh Raulerson (32:03):

And that’s the podcast for this month. You can hear stories from our archive, including recent episodes on advanced geothermal energy and sustainable trail design and maintenance practices. Visit our website at pecpa.org. Or if you prefer, go to your podcast app of choice and search for Pennsylvania Legacies on the website. You can find information about our upcoming events, such as our summer bike out excursion and the ever-popular public lands ride in Black Moshannon State Park in September. Not to mention the Environment Ride in Southeast Pennsylvania. That’s coming your way in October. And of course, explore Pennsylvania’s Water Trail program. Learn more about PEC’s work to protect and restore Pennsylvania’s land, air, and water, all that and more at pecpa.org. Again, pecpa.org. Join us again next month for another episode of Pennsylvania Legacies. While you’re at it, consider a rating and reviewing the show. You can do all of that wherever you find your podcast. And you can keep up to date with us on various social media platforms, including Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, BlueSky, and yep, we’re still on that other one. Until next time, I’m Josh Raulerson. Thanks for listening.